DBM Rundowns - C00lkidd vs WYST

 


“God is God. I dethrone Him in my heart if I demand that he act in ways that satisfy my idea of justice.”

- Elisabeth Elliot

What does it take to stay innocent? To see the world around you as a fun and innovative planet, where only you reign supreme over the prey you hunt for meat? Or to eternally live a life of pure bliss and amusement, pent up in a bubble where everything passes you by? Seeing everyone grow up, it's clear that nobody on Earth knows how it feels — but for better or worse, these guys do.

WYST, the smiling, gluttony-filled god of Pillar Chase 2.

C00lkidd, the psychotic, brainwashed Roblox hacker of Forsaken.

These two exist in a neurological state of mind that slowly preys on their downfall, but who would win a DEATH BATTLE?

Before We Start...

First of all, this is a remake of another blog that you may have read before. While we won't use too many aspects from it (aside from images, whose credits will go to them), we'd like to give credit to the authors regardless. 

The reason why we're making our version of the blog is, well... A lot of things (FTL Fuwatti, little cosmology discussions, overall lowballing of the characters, etc.) By no means is this made to hate on the people who made the blog, however.

Also, to get this out of the way, we understand the drama that Forsaken has gone through, but we'd like to not dwell on that. If you are not comfortable with the drama and the 25% leeching, then please do not read this blog.

Alright, now on to the fight.

We should first go over what we'll consider canon and non-canon for both. For WYST, this is simple. There will be no crossover scaling that doesn't seem reasonable (such as Innyume), as it's evidently fallacious. Is WYST married to Smileghost? Yes, but that doesn't mean this version of Smileghost scales off of her canon counterpart. 

Also, we won't be using any official BATIM stuff, because Joey Drew Studios hasn't acknowledged PC2, and Bladeninja isn't affiliated with the game. The same goes for PCX's scaling. Bladeninja has NO relation to SEGA whatsoever, nor to Scott Cawthon (sorry, Springtrap fans).

With that being said, the sources we'll use for WYST are:
Pretty simple. And yes, the official Ao Oni collab thingy also references Pillar Chase 2, so we'll be using that regardless. However, for Support (see the Support section below), we'll only give WYST the support he's actually worked well with in the lore.

The reason for this is that the devs have stated time and time again that the monsters don't canonically get along too well (these comics are just a few examples), so do keep that in mind that we WILL be separating some game mechanics. Bladeninja himself implies that, at some point, the monsters will eventually fight each other. (See Before the Verdicts below) And we will use any material that the developers have posted that can be used for scaling.

We also won't be giving WYST Mario's Madness scaling, as this version of MX, Ultra M, and Forest King is just vastly different (also see Before the Verdicts), so just an FYI. 

The same rule goes for c00lkidd, as we'll be using... About everything (including his Milestones, as they're basically canon - minus the Firebrand corruption). This also includes official stuff acknowledged by the developers.

Background

c00lkidd

  • Name: C00lkidd
  • Age: Biologically 10, but otherwise far older ever since the Games of Hell
  • Height: Unknown
  • Likes: 007n7, being c00l
  • Dislikes: His friends not playing "fair," Bluduude
We'll admit, c00lkidd's past is heavily shrouded in mystery, but we do know one thing for sure: it was tragic. Abandoned at birth, c00lkidd was left on the doorstep of a man known as 007n7, an infamous (but now retired) hacker who could warp reality on a whim. Instead of throwing this pill baby away, 007n7 saw a picture of himself.

A reflection.

Because of this, he sought to nurture the boy in a way to prove that he wasn't all that bad and troublemaking. But it was difficult. C00lkidd would get into a lot of trouble, summoning rocket launchers, wrecking pizza places, you name it. Still, though, the duo pulled through.

Just when all was going well, however, the Spectre realized the pain and anguish that it could bring upon these poor Robloxians. So, being the jerk it is...

Y̵O̵ ̴K̸I̴D̷ ̸I̷ ̴G̴O̷T̸ ̷S̶O̶M̷E̴ ̴C̸A̷N̸D̵Y̶ ̴I̶N̷ ̷T̷H̴E̴ ̸B̴A̵C̶K̵,̷ ̶Y̵O̷U̴ ̴W̷A̵N̶T̷ ̸S̶O̷M̸E̴?̶

Obviously, we don't know what happened, but we DO know that c00lkidd was kidnapped and brainwashed into becoming the serial killer he is today. He views everything as a game, unaware of what's going on around him. For years on end, he would continue killing his friends in a twisted game of tag, where everything was being placed bets on.

Until, finally... Something snapped.

He knew.

He finally understood that he had killed his father and those "friends" he had countless times. But there's no going back now, is there? 200 years stuck in the cycle of never-ending pain. Where would they even go in the outside world? So, with nobody to truly turn to and forgive him (aside from his father, but the Spectre didn't like that), c00lkidd decided to embrace his monstrous nature full-time, using his demonic abilities to become God.

Perhaps there was some hope for c00lkidd somewhere along the lines of brutality and manipulation.

Maybe in another life.

WYST

  • Name: Weird Yellow Smiling Thing
  • Age: Unknown, but it's been here since the creation of its universe
  • Height: 7.23 feet tall
  • Likes: Eating people, Gobble Bombs
  • Dislikes: Valem, probably ("Do you understand?")
Somewhat like Forsaken, Pillar Chase 2's lore is incredibly underdeveloped. But, thanks to developer statements, we know that WYST was the creator and ruler of his home universe. It's unclear if this universe was a safe place to live in or a hunting ground for the Weird Yellow Smiling Thing, but we do know WYST had a loving wife and potential family.

But this would change when, one day, WYST began to experiment with abilities, creating clones of himself. While this was originally going smoothly as planned, there was one failed clone of WYST that WYST banished himself-

Pinky.

Enraged and furious, Pinky began to (somehow?) get stronger. Strong enough to surpass his original creator. 

"Hi WYST! REMEMBER ME?"

Emerging from his banishment, Pinky and WYST fought bravely above the planet, each determined to win. But, alas, the failed copy of WYST managed to pull through, striking WYST in the head and sending him plummeting to Earth. Now, WYST remains a husk of his former self, only being capable of sending people into his arcade machine and spitting out Gobble Bombs.

Nobody knows what happened to WYST's home universe. But it's safe to say karma caught up to him.

Experience & Skills

c00lkidd


Being a 10-year-old hacker, c00lkidd learned from the best. He is capable of wielding the c00lgui, a reality-warping device that allows him to corrupt entire skyscrapers, engulf everything in shades of red, create wormholes, and so much more. Academically, he can study cows and Drakobloxxers, as well as fish, as seen in his makeshift museum.

He can fight on par with military soldiers and survivors who are capable of juking killers who have been killing for 200 years. He is also the creator of the C00l Carnival, a map with functional headlights and technology, inspired by the Natural Disasters Survival game.

He also tried leading Team C00lkidd, I guess(?) But it didn't work out so well, and kinda consisted of clones.

WYST


WYST was the original creator of his universe, being capable of running experiments on his clones and analyzing their behaviors. While this did lead to some unintended consequences (especially Pinky), it should still benefit him regardless.

Additionally, even after being slammed into the Earth and losing... Well, everything that was mentioned above, he's still capable of using the Gobble Bombs and luring unsuspecting survivors into his arcade game, which he has full control over.

Arsenal

c00lkidd

Rocket Launchers


A simple rocket launcher that c00lkidd uses to fire at the wall.

C00lgui


The most important tool that c00lkidd has. The c00lgui is a reality-warping device originally made by 007n7, now repurposed by the Spectre to do all sorts of things. Like corrupting and destroying Roblox HQ, a literal skyscraper. Or exploding someone from the inside out (yes, judging by the kill animation and the cracks on the ground, if you look closely, c00lkidd is not only burning them, but EXPLODING them). Then, we have the crazier things, like creating what seems to be a wormhole that sucks everyone into it.


Firebrand


A sword that sets people on fire. C00lkidd usually uses this in combat or upon hitting a successful Walkspeed Override.

Pizza Boxes


C00lkidd's minions have access to pizza, which, in Forsaken's universe, can heal you! In-game, pizzas can heal you from point-blank explosions, machetes, chainsaws, spikes, fire, you name it! However, this healing can be stopped if you are hit, so...

Balloons


Have you ever played NDS? Well, if you did, then you're a true veteran! This bad boy can be used by c00lkidd to levitate him into the air, and this skin is also referenced in the Birthday Room of the C00l Carnival map. It's canon.

Apples


WYST

Gobble Bombs

Gobble Run


An arcade game made by WYST, which he can control with his limited knowledge.

Teeth


Given his animalistic nature, WYST brands natural weaponry, allowing him to use his teeth to gobble up survivors.

Sword

As shown in WYST'S "Foul" skin, he carries a sword with him. This is canonically because someone fought back against him.

Abilities

c00lkidd

Telekinesis


As shown numerous times in-game (especially in his outro), c00lkidd lifts up Robloxians and cars, leaving them floating in the air. In the Builder Brothers' Pizza map, there are multiple trucks floating in the sky.

Fire Manipulation


C00lkidd can light people on fire, both with the c00lgui and the Firebrand sword. Upon doing so, a small explosion that emanates from the victim's body will explode them from the inside, leaving them mangled and burnt. When you describe it like that, it's honestly brutal.

Explosion Manipulation


C00lkidd can cause room-sized explosions with the c00lgui while keeping his distance. Also (while this is debatable), like any other Robloxian, they have access to nukes.

Weapon Creation


C00lkidd can summon the firebrand and also create rocket launchers, as seen in 007n7's Milestone III render.

Decomposition

Statistics Amplification


The c00lgui can amplify c00lkidd's speed. Being the same thing that is constantly corrupting c00lkidd in Milestone IV skin, c00lkidd should also scale to it in terms of physicality.

Resistance Negation (Explosion Manipulation)


As some of you might know, Robloxians in Forsaken can withstand nuclear explosions daily (and, like Taph, are completely immune to them.) However, c00lkidd's rocket launchers, which cause explosions, are perceived as a threat to them nonetheless.

Reality-Warping & BFR


C00lkidd can BFR the viewer by simply walking up to them before sending them into what appears to be another pocket dimension (much like C00l Carnival).

Empowerment


Killers in Forsaken do not lose stamina when far away from a survivor. Unlike survivors, killers do not stagger when falling from high places (that would usually break a person's legs).

Immortality (Type 1, 2, 4, & 8)



Being in the FORSAKEN video game, which is owned by the Spectre, c00lkidd will never age and will continue the Cycle forever. He can take multiple gunshots and sword blows to the head with no difficulty and is brought back to life by the Spectre whenever he dies. To get rid of the Spectre, the Players of FORSAKEN must stop playing the game and buying the Spectre's items entirely. 

Which is difficult, because the Spectre will make sure you come back and play.

ESP

(Original artist unknown)

All Forsaken killers can sense a survivor's presence during LMS, and Corrupt Nature can highlight them through walls.

Homing Attack & Duplication




C00lkidd can create clones of himself (much like his father), and these clones will wander towards the nearest survivor. While they get hindered by the Undetectability status effect at first, this does not work on them anymore in LMS.

Wormhole Creation


Yeah, I'm surprised not many people talk about this. C00lkidd can create what appears to be a wormhole, which can suck other people inside of it. Obviously, this doesn't affect him.

WYST

Weapon Creation & Explosion Manipulation

(Art by the Crying Bomb)

Since WYST is a rip-off of Pac-Man, he has what is called "Gobble Bombs," which he stores in his mouth. He can create Gobble Bombs any time he wants, and this is put into haywire upon activating Frenzy.

Immortality Negation (Type 2)


Even though survivors in PC2 can survive being dismembered, monsters can still kill them easily. I'm more concerned about what the survivors are made out of.

Shapeshifting


While WYST hasn't used this so often, he's capable of turning himself into an arcade machine and into a form of elastic diamond. This isn't a real diamond, obviously, but since all of WYST's skins are canon, this means WYST can take the shape of numerous beings. WYST also turned into a cow at one point, so... Yeah???

Reality Warping


Like other people in the PC2 cast, WYST is the creator of his universe. This doesn't mean he created everything in PC2, obviously (MX's universe is treated as something entirely different), but still. This is easily a Low 2-C feat.

WoG Abilities


While never shown on-screen, it's stated that WYST can teleport others inside of his arcade game (and away from him), remove his limbs, increase his head size, duplicate himself, shapeshift, and disfigure reality. He can also twist the universe and erase you from existence.

Statistics Amplification


Frenzy is capable of making WYST shoot out many more Gobble Bombs and run faster, giving him a strength boost to his physical stats overall.

Portal Creation


WYST, despite being weakened, can still create portals and teleport people inside his arcade machine.

Empowerment


As the original blog states, WYST is granted infinite stamina when there are no survivors nearby.

Fourth Wall Awareness


Stares directly at the players in his intro. In older versions of the game, he could talk to the player in their death screen, albeit this was removed (and then added?) and then removed again. Either way, it shouldn't do anything much.

Resistances

c00lkidd

WYST

(Original artist unknown.)
  • Explosion Manipulation: Unaffected by the Gobble Bombs.
  • Fire Manipulation: Seemingly unharmed by Fazbear's Frights burning down.
  • Extrasensory Perception: Cannot be seen by other monsters' ESP abilities.
  • Probably a lot more if you count the game mechanics (see Before the Verdict)

Support

c00lkidd

The Spectre

Easily the most prominent support that c00lkidd has (unfortunately, it's not his dad), the Spectre is the game master and creator of the FORSAKEN video game, as seen in its official Roblox account, where it is the owner of the Forsaken Dev Team group.

Being a cult-like deity, it brings a lot to the table:
  • Reality-Warping: Is the creator of the FORSAKEN video game and the owner of the Forsaken Dev Team group. And yes, this is canon, as it references the Demophon ARG in-game.
  • Sealing: There is no escape from the FORSAKEN video game, and this is not hyperbole either, as it's stated numerous times that leaving is not an option.
  • Law Manipulation: Chance's Weakness stacks are caused by the Spectre, according to the Q&A.
  • Intangibility: Can phase through objects at will and end up in different matches.
  • Cosmic Awareness: The Spectre is always watching over Damnation, a plane that houses timelines. Being the creator of the FORSAKEN video game, he should also be granted this ability through his technology and cameras.
  • Flight: Can fly.
  • Power Bestowal & Mind Manipulation: Transformed c00lkidd and corrupted John Doe to become the monster that he is. Because of the Spectre, c00lkidd's pre-milestones thought that he was playing a game of tag, when really, he was killing people.
  • Power Nullification: Causes Dusekkar's magic to become extremely limited.
  • Dimensional Manipulation: Traps 1x1x1x1 in their 3D form, even though 1x1x1x1 is confirmed to be a 4000-dimensional being. No, we didn't say a 4-dimensional being. We said FOUR THOUSAND DIMENSIONAL.

1x1x1x1


Being c00lkidd's closest friend in the realm of Damnation, 1x1x1x1 also counts as support for c00lkidd. So, what does he bring to the table?
  • Necromancy: 1x1x1x1 can summon his minions, originally fallen survivors, to the battlefield. While these minions are dim-witted, it's stated that 1x1x1x1 has enough to take over the world. "I CAST NECROMANCY!" 
  • Higher-Dimensional Existence: 1x1x1x1 is not only a 4D being, but over time, he became a 4000-D being. (Hyperversal)
  • Weapon Mastery: Can wield the two Venomshanks.
    • Perception Manipulation: Via the Glitched status effect.
    • Poison Manipulation: Can inflict the Poisoned status effect.
  • Body Control: Via Entanglement, which stops the target from moving.
  • Vibration Manipulation: Slashes hard enough to create Mass Infection, which is stated to be a shockwave. (Transonic)
  • Immortality (Type 1, 2, 4, & 8): Being a killer, he is blessed with every type of immortality that c00lkidd has.

WYST

Valem


As an upper-class demon, Valem is desperate for WYST to join him and his forces. So, with this in mind, it's likely he would count as support.

MX


Having been around since the start of the universe, MX is a sadistic demon who takes the form of Mario. He loves watching humans bleed to death, kill each other, and do other messed-up stuff. While he has high stamina drain, his abilities allow him to catch up quickly.
  • Monster Physiology: Self-explanatory.
  • POW Hop: A simple hop that allows MX to leap high into the air, creating a shockwave upon landing. To avoid this POW Hop, you need to act fast and jump.
  • Shapeshifting: Takes the form of Mario, and it's implied he did this himself.
  • Stomp: A ground stomp that crushes anyone unfortunate enough to be near MX.
  • Charging Demise: A charge that MX uses to ram into anyone in his path.

Rosemary


Since Rosemary is a part of Valem's "gang," it's reasonable to list her as a support.
  • Enhanced Senses: If a survivor makes a sound in 105 studs of her location, they will be highlighted. It can also count as ESP.
  • Demonic Shriek: Rosemary deals 5 damage upon hitting a survivor and regains 17 stamina.
  • Soul Manipulation: Like other demons.
  • Statistics Reduction: Sightless Essence drains a survivor's stamina and pauses their regeneration.

Vapor


Vapor is a demon who also serves Valem, alongside his (non-romantic) partner Rosemary. While they don't have the best relationship with each other, it'd only be right to make them a team.
  • Fire Manipulation
    • Scorching Grip: Allows Vapor to do a long lunge (depending on his charge) and then apply the Burning debuff.
  • Teleportation: Via Demonic Shift, albeit this is limited to his sight.
  • Summoning: Can summon spiders, which can be knocked off and used to track survivors. Sounds... Kinda similar.

Ultra M (Metal Sonic)


Easily WYST's most important ally (or everyone's ally). Much like the Spectre (which is surprising, since the idea of the Spectre was actually pitched before PC2's Ultra M), M is the self-proclaimed "god" of the Mario Cartridge.
  • Large Size: M stands immensely tall, as shown in his trailer, and even MX is far smaller than him.
  • Additional Limbs: Has multiple arms, which he can use to lift people up.
  • Pipes: M can use pipes to BFR people, albeit he needs to send them into them.
  • Teleportation: Can teleport between matches.
  • Cosmic Awareness: He can watch over Pillar Chase 2, which is stated to be a broken universe of sorts.
  • Necromancy: He's the reason why the survivors of PC2 can continue coming back to life. In the original MM mod, he does this through extra lives, although this isn't mentioned in PC2.
  • Reality-Warping: Unlike the actual M from Mario's Madness, Ultra M's reality-warping in PC2 takes a considerable amount of time, but he DOES use it in matches.

Feats

c00lkidd


  • Corrupts entire buildings
  • Creates numerous wormholes
  • Can snap the neck of multiple survivors and military veterans
  • FORSAKEN's chase themes can rival K-Pop Demon Hunter songs in terms of popularity

Strength

Speed

(Art by u/JT_Liwanag)

Durability

(Art by ZiRoArT)

Feats

WYST


  • Created an entire universe
  • Banished Pinky
  • Has a wife (yes, this is canon)
  • Has served numerous rounds as the killer in Pillar Chase 2
  • Survives a fall from outer space
  • Has a banger theme song
  • Stated to have limitless potential (Boundless, fr fr)

Strength

(Thumbnail by Nixx)

Speed

  • Can kill numerous survivors, who can block Uncle Samsonite's sound-based attacks (Supersonic)
  • The Gobble Bombs should scale to real-world explosions like grenades (Hypersonic+)
  • Can outrun survivors who can loop other killers.
  • ... That's surprisingly all of his impressive feats.

Durability

Scaling

c00lkidd

The Killers



As c00lkidd is a killer who also fights the same survivors others have struggled with, it's right to assume that he scales to them, despite having only 800 HP.

The Survivors


The Damned are survivors kept by the Spectre in the FORSAKEN video game. Since c00lkidd kills them regularly, he should scale to them.

WYST

The Monsters


Since WYST is considered more powerful than some of the cast, he should scale to them. Obviously, upcoming monsters that aren't in-game won't be used like Gorefield, but we'll use what we have right now.

Weaknesses

c00lkidd

Had 007n7 not taken c00lkidd in, he would've lived a happy life.

While c00lkidd is pretty dangerous, he still has a bunch of weaknesses. First off, he lacks any ESP abilities and relies on his minions to track the survivors for him. While this can be shrugged off via Undetectability, during LMS, this doesn't work. Additionally, c00lkidd is consistently egotistical in his Milestone IV render, where he views the survivors as insects.

C00lkidd also has the lowest health bar in the game (800 HP), and the Spectre (his main support) may give his opponents weapons that may wound him. While the Spectre does noticably revive c00lkidd, it's still important to note.

WYST

Even the DEVS hate him.

Yeah, while WYST is powerful, he has MANY weaknesses. After his fight with Pinky, he got brain damage and can no longer use any of the abilities he had as a god. This doesn't mean he's powerless, though; it's just that he forgot everything. Shapeshifting, life manipulation, teleportation, and the works are therefore thrown out of the box. Additionally, WYST (as a god) was incredibly full of himself and couldn't anticipate Pinky's comeback. This shouldn't be a weakness, though, as WYST isn't in his TDHT form anymore.

Additionally, his main support in the fight (Ultra M) does not like getting his hands dirty and likes to watch scenes from the background, as stated in his reveal trailer, which may cut WYST off. It's unclear if M (in Pillar Chase 2's canon) is even used for monsters dying.

Before the Verdicts...

Can Dusekkar ACTUALLY beat the Spectre?


Short Answer: No. 

Long Answer: Forsaken's fanbase is full of misinformation. Yes, Dusekkar can fend off against the Spectre by resisting his kidnapping methods. However, under no circumstances could Dusekkar HARM the Spectre or kill it in general. The developers make it explicitly clear that when the Spectre sets its eyes on someone, it doesn't kill them - it takes them. This is further supported on the official Forsaken wiki, which states that all of the survivors shown up to the Chapter 2 update were kidnapped by the Spectre, and never once did it get its hands dirty (aside from Noob).

Yes, in the original lore (which Hytoko and Basil's version of the Spectre should scale off of), the Spectre DOES kill Tyler by tearing him apart, but that was only after it found out that, after 200 years, Tyler became numb to the pain.

This meant that the Spectre wasn't trying to kill Dusekkar in the first place, hence why it was difficult for him to kidnap the pumpkin wizard. Dusekkar also has, like, NO FEATS in his prime anyway, so just going off of screen-time alone, Spectre could've crushed Dusekkar like a bug.

Would the Players count as support to c00lkidd?


On the surface, yes. Since the Spectre states that the Players are the reason the Games of Hell continue, they should qualify for support. However, while they may control killers like Sixer (as shown in A Realization), it's unlikely they will actually join in on the fight against WYST. The best they can do by existing is resist WYST and M's BFR, but that's about it, unfortunately. Of course, given that they are FORSAKEN'S canon life source, they're still important.

FORSAKEN and Status Effects



On some powerscaling sites, this may count as game mechanics. However, we beg to differ, as status effects such as Strength and Resistance are evidently canon in FORSAKEN and contribute heavily to survivor abilities. For one, no, Guest 1337's block isn't a gameplay mechanic - upon blocking, the game states that he is immune to all forms of damage (Resistance V), and in no way should this be a game mechanic.

FORSAKEN, in on itself, is canonically stated to be an in-universe video game owned by the Spectre, so yes, this is part of the survivors' canon abilities. Status effects such as Slateskin should also be considered canon for obvious reasons.

"What about the Stunned status effects?"

Yes, these are canon too, and can be considered as durability negation. The Stunned status effect is indeed a thing that stops killers in their tracks, and this is further backed up by the Stun Immunity protection the killers receive upon being stunned. To explain this a bit more, upon receiving Stun Immunity, the killers become resistant to any weapons and attacks the sentinels throw at them (whilst still taking damage). This means that Stun Immunity literally corresponds to the actual Stunned status effect, and that the Stunned status effect isn't a game mechanic whatsoever, but a status effect that the Sentinels can inflict on killers alike -- otherwise, the killers wouldn't be harmed.

"What about BrawlR?"

While Slasher does show immunity against Shedletsky's sword stuns, Forsaken makes it explicitly clear that, for stuns to work, the weapon of the sentinels needs to touch the killers' skin. While some characters like Guest 1337 CAN stun Slasher within their kill animation and block them, it's important to understand that Guest was significantly weakened, and his arm was still dislodged, nonetheless, meaning it was still a pretty weak punch that he threw.

TLDR: Yes, status effects in FORSAKEN (be it Strength, Resistance, Poisoned, Speed, or anything else) will be treated as canon and can be used in calculations.

Is BrawlR canon to FORSAKEN?

This is going to be controversial, but yes, in our eyes, it's evident that BrawlR is canon. For one, both the FORSAKEN dev team and BrawlR acknowledge each other (with BrawlR posting their own collab trailer, which is shown to be canon like other BrawlR introductions), and while this happens in many collabs, BrawlR's skins for FORSAKEN are actually canon to the lore (much like many other BrawlR skins).

This means that, yes, FORSAKEN canonically exists in BrawlR and they should scale to their canon feats as seen in-game via the trailer.

It'd be a war crime to not mention the insane cosmology that Forsaken has, so let's get into it.

Forsaken's Cosmology?

We've posted about this several times before, but let's just copy and paste it in. 

BrawlR


The BrawlR arcade machine is indeed its own universe with its own time and even possibly its own pocket dimensions. That's it. Pretty basic.

Forsaken


Also called the Eternal Hell, Forsaken is a video game that takes place in, you guessed it, an "eternal hell" which will last forever and ever. It's situated below the Real World (more on that later), which views all of it as fiction (as seen in the image above, where a real-world entity states that Forsaken is just a "game" or "digital wasteland"), though some views may differ.

Games themselves in Forsaken are called "experiences" (as stated in A Nightmare, a game related to the Forsaken ARG), and Forsaken is just one of them -- in another game titled Buckshot Frenzy, we even see the Doorman refer to these games as "realities" (which is further backed up here). As depicted in the canon Milestone skins, Forsaken arguably has its own timeline that the Spectre can interfere with and kidnap survivors from during specific time periods. This is backed up in official WoG, where the devs confirm the existence of timelines.


Assuming Forsaken should technically scale to the number of actual games and experiences on Roblox, this would put the verse easily at Multiverse level+ due to Roblox having 40 billion games, though this is a highball.

The Real World


We've only seen two appearances of the Real World in Forsaken's lore, but it's worth noting. The Spectre can ship out plushies/the souls of survivors into the Real World so that the Players can "harness their power" and luck. Inhabitants of the "Real World" see Forsaken as a digital wasteland/game, and, apparently, enjoy "PLACING THEIR BETS."


The Spectre


Not much to really say about it here. It's definitely on par with entities from the Real World, as it literally owns an account, making it comparable to other Players. Other than that, it upscales from everything. Forsaken's lore is tragic, but it's also quite janky.

Several wikis have already accepted this scaling under a proper CRT (with the Real World reaching Low 1-C tiers), so this shouldn't be much of a problem in our eyes.

Spectre speeding up time?


In the official A GRAVE SOUL (NOW, RUN) music video, the footage of the match begins to speed up at one point to make things go faster. While this might seem like a special effect, the music video makes it explicitly clear that the footage we see is taking place in real time, as the Players are placing their bets on the survivors and killers.

So yes, this is an actual ability.

Would the Spectre actually HELP c00lkidd?

It depends, but yes, it would. It's shown numerous times to support killers (hell, the reason c00lkidd is so strong is solely BECAUSE of the Spectre), so this shouldn't be an issue. When it comes down to it, the Spectre is more than willing to revive anyone it sees fit in case things go wrong.

Immeasurable Fuwatti & Ultra M?


In the official Ao Oni anime, Fuwatti travels back in time and enters a different time period. While this easily counts as Immeasurable speed, it shouldn't be combat-applicable, since Fuwatti not only needed encouragement to pull off this feat, but he doesn't use it for the rest of the show. In some episodes, Fuwatti is noticeably out of his league when faced against anti-Oni spray, so if anything, these feats are outliers, and the cast shouldn't scale.

The next argument comes from Ultra M, who is implied to have travelled across universes. This is obviously a no-go, as Ultra M has no feats of this in the actual game or trailers (trust us, we've looked at them), and aside from M himself stating that "we have found ourselves across a broken universe," there's nothing stating he travelled across the whole universe, nor should it be Immeasurable in the first place. 

Why doesn't WYST have all of his support?


Simple: they don't actually like working together. The Behind the Curtains trailer makes it explicitly clear that M is in control of everything, including monster relationships. In the official PC2 comics (which, while they may not hold some canonicity, were still made by an official developer nonetheless and can therefore be used to describe the monsters' relationships with each other), they also make it clear that the monsters do NOT like each other one bit.

Especially Valem.

Screw you, bird man.

Even if we WERE to give them all of the Support in the fight, it wouldn't change the outcome either way (see Verdicts below), and it'd kinda make things more of a scuffle canonically than your average round of Pillar Chase 2. Yes, the monsters DO work together in Demo the Pirate Drunk's comics, but mostly as a means to an end. Some monsters, like the Stricken (a monster that has perfect teamwork with WYST in-game and follows the group around), will even harm others around it via its voice.

WYST also doesn't appear much in group meetings, as depicted by Demo the Pirate Drunk, so it's likely that he doesn't want to rely on others (which is understandable since Valem can't understand him).

"But is it canon?"

No, but since a Pillar Chase 2 developer actually wrote this, it's safe to say we can use it to assume what's really going on with the cast and how they're "prospering." Even if you were to assume that it's non-canon, in no way could they actually work well together and apply their skills in a combat-applicable sense (WYST surprisingly being a prime example of this).

Can't WYST resist other monster abilities?

This is also a surprisingly simple answer. In-game, yes, WYST can shrug off anything, but this is likely a gameplay mechanic, as Bladeninja makes it clear that the monsters' abilities CAN work on each other. At least, the ones that will actually harm them.

Mountain level WYST?

(Image by Wrecked Gaming)

Yes, absolutely. While Island level Niloticus scaling hasn't been accepted, since the Tsar Bomba is estimated to be around 100 Megatons, which is still Mountain level. While this is still speculation, most powerscaling calculations have accepted these numbers via the Tsar Bomba's attack potency, and thus, we can use them.

So yes, 7-A Pillar Chase 2 seems a-okay!

Immortality Type 7 WYST?


Simply no. While WYST takes the form of a Pac-Man ghost, this is in no way stated to actually be him in ghost form. Looking closely at the texture in-game, it appears to just be WYST wearing a cloth (of course, WYST can still shove you in his mouth).

Diamond WYST?


This would definitely be a game-changer in PC2 calculations, but no. Diamond, Gold, and Bronze skins aren't actually made of diamonds. We know this because WYST's arms are still elastic, something that would be impossible for diamonds overall.

Can PC2 WoG be used?

Fuwatti the fodder

Yes. It doesn't matter if this was stated because a powerscaler asked it. If a developer stated that one character can beat the other, then it may be considered canon.

Infinite speed Pillar Chase 2?

On maps like the Ward, you can come across Lost Souls, which will speak to you in weird, mystic languages. One of their dialogues states that "time appears to have stopped." First of all, this is wrong on so many levels. Before that dialogue happens, the Lost Soul states that "it has been forever, hasn't it?" Meaning that time didn't actually stop, and these statements alone from the Lost Souls are generally unreliable due to their purposefully mystic tongue. And this is where the argument quickly falls flat.

The idea of time being stopped overall is not even explored any further in the game, and therefore, it is too vague to use. 

What makes Ultra M so... Different?

(Image by Duncan Potter)

First of all, this version of M is much different from the one we see in Mario's Madness. In MM, Ultra M wants to take revenge on Daddy Dearest by kidnapping his daughter and her boyfriend. In Pillar Chase 2, Boyfriend and Girlfriend are never mentioned ANYWHERE, and on top of that, this version of M targets random people.

He doesn't want to get revenge; he just wants to see you bend and break. This isn't even taking into account the change of color (which, while it may have been created to avoid copyright), is still something to note, as in MM, Ultra M takes the form of our chubby Italian plumber. Never ONCE throughout the game does he try to change forms aside from his final one, but even then, he still keeps his color scheme.

Many more differences can be brought up (the Mario Cartridge's absence, most notably), but I'm sure you get the idea. While M is voiced by Scrumbo, it doesn't mean that he will get full crossover scaling.

Phoenix's WoG statements & the Redesigns being canon?



In a Twitter QnA, Phoenix stated that the Hairdresser was the main reason as to why the monsters got their design changes. So, this means that the Stricken's supersonic feats are still usable, right?

Wrong. While Phoenix DOES mention this, the official wiki states that not all of it is 100% canon to the game's story and lore. So, it's too risky to actually use this. That, and the fact that the Stricken was removed from the main PC2 game, is more than enough to assume that this feat is scrapped.

Inkfell vs Shadowborne?


While remnants of Shadowborne can be found on older iterations of the maps, in no way should they contribute to the full canon.

Verdicts

PHYSICALS

First off, Physicals. C00lkidd was no pushover in this category, and destroying those sentries, dispensers, and completely pulverizing metal television heads are no easy feats. Especially if you're fighting against survivors who've survived other killers who have been killing for 200 years. However, while c00lkidd's higher ends scale to at least 9 Tons of TNT, at the bare minimum, WYST scales to 58 Megatons of TNT. That's 57 million times stronger than anything c00lkidd can pull off. To be fair, c00lkidd does have the edge in the lower ends (33 megajoules > 26 megajoules), but that was it. Sure, maybe c00lkidd WAS faster, but that wouldn't help when your opponent is far, FAR stronger than you. Judging by the numbers alone (and scaling), you'd think this is the end for our favorite c00lkidd.

But then, the supports and the c00lgui come into play, and this is where things take a drastic turn. First of all, while both verses have solid 4-dimensional scaling (Ultra M, WYST, and Ao Oni being around Universal to Universal+), the Spectre scales to 4000-dimensional beings. This is a blatant Hyperversal feat, and 1x1x1x1's true form can be released by the Spectre at any given time. 

Even if you weren't counting those Hyperversal statements, the fact that the c00lgui could just move the sun in general is much, MUCH better of a feat than anything WYST has pulled off, being around Solar System level and dwarfing Mountain level WYST. Speed was also a factor to consider here, as since WYST lost his above-baseline Supersonic scaling, going off by gameplay and calculations alone, c00lkidd scales to 998 m/s at his low-ends, to even Mach 5 if we take Nosferatu's statements seriously. No matter which end you used, c00lkidd was far faster, and that wasn't counting the Sub-Relativistic feats the c00lgui could pull off.

So, while WYST was generally stronger, c00lkidd's allies gave him a one-up. That, coupled with his speed, comfortably makes this category a tie.

POWERS

Okay, so if you've taken a look at c00lkidd's stats and compared them to WYST's abilities, you can tell where we're going with this. 

WYST's abilities are overpowered on regular humans, that's for sure. But looking back, it won't really do anything. Gobble Bombs won't work on c00lkidd because Robloxians in Forsaken's lore are immune to explosions like nukes and the Subspace Tripmine. Soul Manipulation won't work on c00lkidd because of the Spectre's protection. Transporting c00lkidd into Gobble Bomb also wouldn't work because c00lkidd is eternally imprisoned within Damnation, so... Ultra M. 

Yup. That's WYST's biggest counter. So now, we need to ask ourselves: "What can M do?"

Well, like his canon counterpart, M can gatekeep WYST from dying by reviving him back from the dead and stopping time (if you take the Lost Soul statements seriously), but that's where the counters end, and finally, things begin looking up for the c00lkidd. Not only would those time stop abilities not work on Hyperversal beings, but c00lkidd's corruption and superior telekinesis would give M one heck of a time, especially since it corrupts entire games. Even if the time stop statements were taken into account, it wouldn't stop the Spectre from eventually hacking into the game and overriding all of M's abilities (which it CAN do via sheer speed). 

It's not like M and WYST can harm c00lkidd or his support via their superior immortality, so it isn't reasonable to assume that it would do anything but delay the inevitable. Now on to our favorite section: speed! While Pillar Chase 2 had arguments for Infinite speed, the Spectre's Immeasurable speed feats were much more consistent. First of all, moving between timelines was much better than moving through stopped time, and considering the Spectre sees FORSAKEN as a mere video game, it's unlikely WYST and his allies would know about its existence even with the speed gap.

Even at the finite-speed ends, the Spectre was MUCH faster than anything the cast could keep up with, upscaling everything in the verse (and, again) by seeing Robloxia as a fictional game.

Now, Ultra M is strong and all, with his sheer size granting him immense strength, but the Spectre's mere presence was enough to cover the entire sky. Imagine how large he actually is. And yes, while M could revive WYST... So can the Spectre, and it's much faster, physically stronger (it stole a PLANET for god's sake), and arguably more experienced than it.

To be fair, WYST's resistances would've thrown c00lkidd off nonetheless. Yes, c00lkidd could negate WYST's resistance to explosives, but the Firebrand (something he first attacks with), as well as Walkspeed Override, would be useless. Either way, with all of the stats in mind, this category mostly became a no-brainer.

C00lkidd and his allies effortlessly stomped WYST and his team in this category. C00lkidd took Powers.

SKILLS

Let's not sugarcoat it, c00lkidd is WAY more skilled than WYST. It doesn't matter if you're a god and whatnot; if you have severe brain damage, then you can't understand anything. The same goes for WYST's allies. Sure, Vapor, Rosemary, and Valem were probably collecting souls for a while, and M is at least 32 years old... But Noli himself has existed since the Shakespeare era, being described as "ancient." 

Assuming the Spectre was born somewhere down the line from Noli, this would make the Spectre decades older and more experienced in what they do. So even his allies were more experienced.

C00lkidd took skills.

WEAPONS

This was pretty important to consider. Yes, WYST stat stomps c00lkidd in a physical fight. Luckily, the c00lgui can move entire planets around, which is far better than anything he's pulled off. Sure, a sword and some Gobble Bombs are neat, but like we said, they won't work on Robloxians, and WYST's sword is pretty normal. Meanwhile, the Firebrand can set things on fire.

M could potentially try to BFR 1x1x1x1 via his pipes, but the Spectre negates BFR entirely, so this wouldn't be a problem for Team C00lkidd.

SUPPORT

And now for Support! M and Valem were no pushovers. They could harness the souls of humans, and could potentially open portals to catch c00lkidd off-guard. The thing is, c00lkidd... Can't register Valem's words because the Spectre disallows it. While we ARE assuming c00lkidd is in his Milestone IV state, it's unlikely this would be a problem, because c00lkidd is just too insane at this point.

Even IF Valem could catch c00lkidd's soul, it wouldn't matter, because Valem had no way of countering the Spectre's higher-dimensional existence. Ultra M and the Spectre do give their opponents items to defend themselves with (medkits, flintlocks, etc.), but the Spectre prioritizes c00lkidd's life to keep itself fueled, while M... Doesn't really do anything for the monsters throughout the match. Hell, he's never seen a monster die, so it's unlikely he'll take 1x1x1x1 and c00lkidd seriously until it's too late.

In conclusion, c00lkidd was too agile, too quick, too intelligent, and too overpowered (especially in-game) for WYST to handle. That, combined with his overwhelming and much more skilled and experienced support, made it impossible for Team Pillar Chase to score a win.

C00lkidd took Support.

Conclusion

c00lkidd

"Freshest, hippest, coolest kids, blowing off your socks! You know you're never getting rid of c00lkidds on your block!"

Advantages:
  • Better support overall
  • Has counters to everything WYST could throw at him
  • Much faster
  • Easily more intelligent
  • Abilities were more consistent
  • The Spectre was capable of carrying him throughout the fight, no matter which end of it you used
  • Harder immortality types to overcome
  • Better win-cons even without Hyperversal statements
  • Key After Key

Disadvantages:
  • Gets absolutely stomped in physical stats
  • Time stop could cause him some problems if you buy into those statements
  • M could catch him off guard
  • Would lose a lot of momentum if you don't think the Spectre would intervene until the match ended
  • Has no knowledge of M's necromancy
  • The fight was more or less between M and the Spectre's ability to revive their team from the dead
  • Souldrivenlove

WYST

"A delicious snack indeed!"

Advantages:
  • Absolutely stomps c00lkidd in physical stats.
  • Much stronger than most of c00lkidd's scaling if you count his higher-end calculations.
  • Monsters in PC2 scale much more than survivors.
  • Would potentially be stronger in his true form if not for the Spectre's counters
  • Would still have an advantage if he could successfully BFR c00lkidd into Gobble Run.
  • M could use his skills to hide somewhere while supporting WYST from afar.
  • The Bladeninja

Disadvantages:
  • Support was much weaker
  • Has no way to counter c00lkidd's immortality.
  • No way to fully end the fight.
  • Has no knowledge of the Real World or the Players, meaning M wouldn't know how to put a stop to the Games of Hell
  • ... But survivors have escaped his clutches before, so this isn't reliable either.
  • ... But the wormhole can just draw him out either way.
  • M likely isn't used to monsters dying.
  • Mr. Virtual's theme getting removed
In conclusion, while WYST put up a good fight, he was inferior compared to c00lkidd's vast arsenal, range, skills, abilities, and cosmological arguments, even without Hyperversal feats. While supports were a strong contender, the Spectre was more likely to take the fight more seriously than Pillar Chase 2's version of Ultra M. That, combined with 1x1x1x1's relentless support under the Spectre's reign, made it impossible for the opposing team to score a win.

The winner is c00lkidd!

Final Tally

Team c00lkidd (3) - ForestMain217, I Love Piracy, 007n7

Team WYST (2) - Upcoming_Alt (pity vote), Ultra M


Comments

Post a Comment

Popular posts from this blog

DBM Rundowns - Forsaken Survivors vs Gardenview Entertainment

Image
Dedicated to  R3n_Ad0res The Forsakened , damned souls (cursed with a terrible fandom) who've endured years of torture and trauma from their loved ones who turned on them. Forced to play sick and twisted games of torment, they are broadcast throughout the entire world as sadistic beings "place their bets" on their demise and victory. The Toons , mascot characters (cursed with a terrible fandom) originally created for an educational TV series and a museum called the "Gardenview Center," only to have their cute and innocent lives torn apart by (likewise) the same people they know and love, going through a seemingly infinite hell that they must continue pushing forward through. Bastardizing friendly kid games appears to be a popular concept that's been around since 2011 ( cough cough , Sonic.exe, cough cough ), but when it comes down to it, these games pull off the bait-and-switch trope best. But when these tortured souls from Hell meet in an endless cycle of p...
Read more